Distracted driving is illegal in Michigan since 2023, since the state implemented a hands-free law, but that hasn’t stopped people from still being distracted behind the wheel.

Ryan McMahon of Cambridge Mobile Telematics, a Massachusetts-based firm that tracks data from drivers, was on the latest episode of Talking Transportation and spoke about how it’s not just distracted drivers that are the problem.

“You can’t just build safer cars and hope that it fixes things because even in that case in the last few years, we saw something like a 46-year high in fatalities that happened from automobiles, from people that are outside of those automobiles,” McMahon said.

Last year insurances companies spent nearly $4 million to reduce crashes.